Jonathan:
Welcome to Actors 2020 podcast. I’m your host, Johnny Keatth and today we have a very exciting guest for you. His name is Terry Knickerbocker and he is an acting coach. I’m so excited to talk to him. I’m going to ask him a few specific things. Like what does “run to the cannons” mean? He teaches the Meisner technique, has a fascinating career. Has an amazing acting studio. Why don’t we just get Terry Knickerbocker on the phone and let’s see what he has to offer you. But before we get to that, if you’re looking to buy or sell real estate anywhere in the United States, tri-state Realty, Losangeles.com, where I’ll find you a fantastic real estate agent in the area that you live. 10% of the proceeds goes to the actors fund and 10% goes to a charity that helps people who foster animals. This is a free real estate referral service that doesn’t cost you anything. Tri-state Realty Los angeles.com. And here we go. Hello. Hey Terry has Johnny Keatth from Actors 2020 podcasts. How are you?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Hi, Johnny. I’m. Well, thanks. Good morning. How are you doing?
Jonathan:
Hey, how’d it get started for you? I know you’re an acting coach, but were you ever an actor or how did you get into the business? What is that a young age or were your parents involved?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Well my parents were involved in the event that they took me to a lot of shows growing up. I grew up in New York City and then we moved to Boston when I was seven and I started acting in middle school and then a little bit in high school and college. And then I got kicked out of college because I was acting and I was supposed to be a French major. And then I went to NYU and trained to be an actor there and the journey goes on.
Jonathan:
Wow. But who was your inspirations that you went to? The movies you’re like, wow, I could do that. Was that kind of what it was? Or what was it for you?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah, I loved music and the musicality of voice acting. So I dunno, I love all those seventies actors like Dustin Hoffman and Gene Hackman and Al Pacino, Robert de Niro, Meryl Streep Diane Keaton.
Jonathan:
Yeah. I love Gene Hackman man. He is so funny. He always made me laugh. Yeah.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah he’s a great bad guy is Lex Luther or of course French connection. Yeah. I mean, it’s just great.
Jonathan:
Yeah, because like you said, you liked the music part. So did you do musical theater yourself?
Terry Knickerbocker:
I did. I did. I was singing and I was in the choir and then I did West Side Story and did a lot of weird Gilbert and Sullivan, like the Pirates of Penzance, HMS, Pinafore, Stephen Sondheim. Yeah.
Jonathan:
Right. And then how do you transition from all that to, I’m going to be an acting coach and I’m going to teach other people how to act.
Terry Knickerbocker:
I was acting and I graduated from NYU and I, all of a sudden realized that my work was very inconsistent, which is something that a lot of actors report that some projects they know what they’re doing and other projects they don’t. And you don’t see that in other performing arts, you don’t see a ballet dancer who one week can do a ballet and the other, we can’t, or a musician. And so I was fortunate enough to hear about a wonderful teacher named William Esper, who had trained with Sanford Meisner. And he had a two year program at his studio in New York City. And I went to study with him and my life changed really. He was an extraordinary, extraordinary teacher sharing this beautiful work of Sanford Meisner who had been a pianist in addition to being an actor and a teacher. So he somehow brought the rigor and the discipline and the idea of scales; pianists performed scales all the time to get, to be more musical.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And he figured out how to do that with acting technique. So I was acting, I graduated from Bill’s studio and then I had an opportunity to direct something. And that really clicked for me because when I was acting, I always wanted to do those things that actors aren’t supposed to do, like tell other people where to go and how to say their lines and what the costumes should be. And so that gave me an opportunity to be in charge, which I loved. And I won some awards as a young emerging director. And then I quickly found out that directors don’t make a living unless you’re like Julie Taymor, Joe Mantello, who’s got show on Broadway for 20 years or Julie Taymor, who’s got The Lion King. And I wasn’t going to be directing musicals. Things like, well, how did directors make a living when they’re between shows?
Terry Knickerbocker:
And there were three options. One was to direct soap operas. A lot of theater directors were also working on soap operas. And I tried that for a day and it just wasn’t a fit. I was shadowing at a show called The Guiding Light. And that didn’t feel right for me. The second is that you get on staff at like a regional theater, like the Mark Taper Forum or something like that, or the Public Theater here, which would have been great. I would have loved that, but no theaters in New York needed anybody. And the third was to teach. And so I approached Bill Esper and said, I’d like to train to teach with you. And he said, well, I don’t need any teachers right now. And I said, well, how about if I just watch you teach until you ask me to leave. And that began a 30 year relationship where I eventually taught for him.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And I would say that the main part of my work is teaching actors. Right? But along with that, I met at the time Sam Rockwell, who was training with Bill. And that year Bill happened to be less in the studio. He had other things he was taking care of. So I would sub for him and I got to work with Sam and Yul Vasquez who is a wonderful actor, who was also in Sam’s class. A lot of amazing people were in that class. And then Sam sort of approached me. And I mean, I immediately saw Sam was young. He was in his early twenties. He was a genius. And he said, Hey, I’ve got this thing I want to work on. You want to work on it? And that began what’s now jeez a, 30 year relationship, 32 relationships we’ve done over 125 projects, we’re working on one now. So I started to coach actors in addition to teaching. And in fact, after this call, I’ve got a coaching session. Wow. Someone who’s quite wonderful. So I do both those things. I get a Josh Charles because Sam Rockwell trains at the same gym, Josh Charles trains at, and Josh says, Sam, blah, blah, blah. I love what you did in that. And he said, well, you should go talk to Terry. And Josh reaches out to me and we start to work on stuff.
Jonathan:
He’s a nice guy. I stood in for him on Pie In The Sky. I really enjoyed it.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah. Yeah. He’s a very nice guy. He’s a real man of the theater as well, and so is Sam.
Jonathan:
Yeah. So just quick question somewhere I read, it says, if you don’t have a good professional habit, you’re not going to work. Can you explain that?
Terry Knickerbocker:
First of all the main thing you have to focus on is being really good. And then you also have to kind of be a businessman as you know, if you’re a professional actor and have a good team behind you and ask for things. Sometimes a lot of jobs. An agent or a manager will often see an actor in a particular way. And you may not want to be slotted in that way. Now I’m thinking about Matthew McConaughey, who did all those romcoms and had to stay off the shelf for over a year while he pivoted to something a lot more dramatic because everyone in Hollywood, especially his team said, no, Matthew, this is your sweet spot and this is how you’re making money. And so I think you have to have a real clear idea of how to do your work and how to do it well and have good partners in that.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And then, you know, actors are weird as you know, John, you know, we’re like, we’re really weird people and we’re really creative, but if you want to be successful, this is where this professional habit comes in. I mean, you got to learn your lines. I coached Emmy Rossum for nine seasons. I mean, we’re still working together, but we did nine seasons of Shameless and somewhere around season seven or season eight, a very famous actress had like a three or four episode arc and showed up in the first episode of that didn’t know her lines. They kind of worked on that. And in the second episode she didn’t, and then they fired her and they had to reshoot all that. Wow. I mean, that was just a real shame because here’s someone who is clearly talented, but it’s not showing up in the right way. So I think you need to do whatever the project needs and show up ready, especially because there’s no rehearsal anymore in film and television, as you know. So if you don’t show up off book and ready and having done all the work you need to do, which means if you’re supposed to be a CIA agent who knows hand-to-hand combat well you better know some of that. And if they’re supposed to be a bartender, then you better know some of that. And just really able to tell the story in a clear and professional way, and I’d also be reliable, but also be a good hang, like be friendly to craft services, be friendly to everybody.
Jonathan:
That’s what it comes down to. If it comes down to two or three actors in their casting, they’re like, who do I want to hang around with for 12 hours equally talented. So is there a good, quick tip? You can give us about how to learn your line like quickly or any, something like that. Because I had trouble with that myself.
Terry Knickerbocker:
That’s funny. Cause you know, everybody has their own methodology. There’s an actor who was on West Wing. He learns his lines by taking the first letter of every word and writing it out. It’s to be, or not to be, he goes T B O N T B. Right? Now, I could never do it that way, but he’s been doing it for 30 years and he’s doing it great. My teacher, Bill Esper always said the way to learn lines is one line at a time. And so you start with the first line and then you go to the next line and then you see if you know them. And if you don’t go back to the beginning, I’ll say also that most actors think they know the lines, but as another guy I work with, Jonathan Majors, who is a wonderful actor, says, he has to feel those lines in his nervous system. It has to be, it’s not just in his brain, it’s in his belly, it’s in his gut. So that if I call you up, if I called you Johnny and I woke you up at three in the morning, and I said, what’s your mother’s name? You’d know. So if I gave you the cue, you should know that too.
Jonathan:
Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah. I think when I used to have a longer script, I would start with the last line and read it and then read the one above it and then go one above it. So by the time you got to your first line, you kind of already had a foundation of where you’re going because you started from the backside. But I don’t know that word.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah. It works really. There’s no rights. It doesn’t matter. As long as you know em and you’re ready to go and you feel loose and available and not in your head and not stressed you’re going to do. Okay.
Jonathan:
Yeah. My problem now is doing a lot of self-tapes. So I got the background, I got the three point lighting. I got the look with the camera set and there’s just so many to do.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Pandemic has put us all into the self-tape world, probably never going back. And they’re always wanting quick turnaround. And sometimes you say, no, I’m not going to be able to put my best work forward. Or you say, I’m going to be a little off Book or I’m going to be holding the side because I want to give you some acting. Cause some actors are very good, but we in New York and probably out there too, but especially with theater here, we do..We used to do a lot of reading. And so that’s where they get really good actors and they don’t pay them. And there’s a playwright. Who’s a good playwright and wants to hear his play read for producers. And the actors have gotten the script like two days before. No one’s off book. You’re sitting on chairs with music stands and some actors are really good at that. Some actors know how to pick the lines off the page and really turn it into acting and connect to another actor. If I were you, I’d rather you be on the sides, but giving me good moments than trying to remember the line and not having the acting.
Jonathan:
I feel the more you do, the better you get. Even if it’s something that I’m quite not right for me, there’s no way I’m going to get this. And then I’ll just do it. And sometimes you get the call back. I’m like, what was that like how did I get that?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Who knows this is a weird business and when you get it and you don’t get, it is so many factors not tall enough too tall. And maybe just that story you told it’s because you, you kind of gave up and said, I’m not going to press it, but what the hell let’s do it.
Jonathan:
Yeah. It’s funny. I have an expression from you. It’s called “run to the cannons”. What does that mean?
Terry Knickerbocker:
That came from an old group therapist I worked with, you know, I really believe in therapy for actors, just so you kind of know who the hell you are and can access all your stuff. And so I was in group therapy with this wonderful guy for a long time named Dr. Lou Armand. And he said, run towards the canons. You know, as human beings under stress, we either have the fight or flight or freeze and run toward the cannon is about kind of go into battle, go into what scares you, because what are you going to lose? So making a choice, that’s going to scare you doing something outrageous, doing something that takes you to your edge so that you’re constantly expanding your set of possibilities as an actor and not just phoning it in with what’s comfortable.
Jonathan:
My question is, it’s interesting how you were in an acting program that was a two year and now you have your own acting. Well, you have several programs, but I know you have a two year program. Is it in-person is it online or is it a hybrid?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Thank you for asking that March of 2020, everything’s shut down. And I thought the studio is going to shut down because I really didn’t think you could teach acting online. But I said, let’s try. And I was so fortunate to have a faculty and a bunch of students who were willing to try, although they were very doubtful and some were resentful at the time, scared and many had left New York because all their jobs had dried up. They worked in restaurants, they were babysitters. There were no jobs anymore. Everything really shut down. So up until the end of this past July, we were online exclusively and we made the decision to come back a couple of weeks ago, we started being in person again at my studio, which has been empty in Brooklyn since March of 2020. Wow. We don’t do hybrid. We are in-person and I’m about to start a new first year class.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And I got to tell you, Johnny, it feels so great to be back in the room together. Now we’re being careful. We’re masked, we’ve got air filters and we’re lysoling everything, but we have to play safe and we’re making sure we have the daily health check and everyone’s vaccinated. We’re doing really strict protocols for health and public health, but the explosion of joy in that room when the bodies came into it and started to work together, oh my God. It’s like rain in the desert. And it’s so exciting. And I’m really excited to meet this new first year class. We’ll have another first year class that we’re getting ready for. For January. We still have spots for that, that are available. We’re going full steam ahead. As long as this pandemic will let us, if something happens and things get worse and it’s not safe anymore, well, we’ll go back to Zoom until we can be safe again. But right now it’s working out. I ultimately think that the best work and I looked on your website and you’ve done some training in LA and probably the best acting class is still going to be an in-person class. But an online class has a lot of things going for it too.
Jonathan:
Yeah, I know I was at the Beverly Hills Playhouse for a couple of years and Gary M Hoff was my teacher and it was so interesting sitting there watching, and I was going, is this an acting class or is this like a personal therapy session? Because so many people had to go back and fix things in their life before they could actually act. It was interesting.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Well, as Stella Adler said, the best artistic training also makes you a better human being. So it’s not the goal of an acting class to be therapeutic. You should go to a therapist for that, but it can be therapeutic in that you grow and you learn about yourself. And as you run toward the canons, let’s say you were someone who had a really dominating father and domineering. He was always shutting you down. And then you have a chance let’s say in A Long Day’s Journey into Night, or some other kind of theme to stand up to an imaginary father, something about that grows emotional muscles for you that extend beyond the play. Oh wow. I don’t have to be a mouse. I can be a mouse who roars.
Jonathan:
I’ve seen exactly what you’re talking about, where they put somebody on the stage. They pretended that was their father and just the emotions and just getting that first line out. But then once they did, they just let them have it. And then after that, the next scene in class, they’re amazing. It was just kind of holding them back until they got that out. Pretty good.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Well they got to do something they were scared to do, or that there were consequences to do in real life. And in the imaginary world, there’s no consequences. You die in the imaginary world and you don’t really die. And so you get to take chances. You get to do things. That’s why people act, I think is that they get to live out all these parts of being alive. That doesn’t make sense in real life.
Jonathan:
Wow.
Terry Knickerbocker:
I’m about teaching and coaching and I’m here to just keep my studio going, expanding. I’ve got an amazing staff, an amazing faculty and beautiful students, and we’re looking forward to continuing to grow. And my wife’s having a baby. So we’re doing that. And that’s going to be a great addition to my eight year old son. And we’ve got our pandemic dog. So just live in the life here in Brooklyn. And every day is a wonderful opportunity to learn and to grow and to be the thing we strive for at my studio is excellence. And that’s what I’m always looking for is like, how can I be the very best expression of me on any given day as a teacher, a coach, a father, a neighbor, a podcast guest, doing the best I can and learning from my mistakes
Jonathan:
And not repeating them. Right?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Oh I’ll repeat them, we repeat mistake. But, hopefully we learn. Yeah.
Jonathan:
Well, congratulations on the child. That’s awesome. That’s so exciting. Um, so how does somebody get you? Like if they want you privately or they want to get into your two year program? What’s the process?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah, It’s all the same. I have a website. I have a long name, an old Dutch name, TerryKnickerbockerstudio.com on Instagram. I think we’re under Terry Knickerbocker studio. I’m pretty easy to Google. And if you send us an email, you can send it straight to me. Terry at TerryKnickerbocker,studio.com, we’ll start the conversation. You can’t just sign up for a class. We really like to meet people and see wether if it’s a good fit for you. If it’s not a good fit, we don’t want you to be there and want to make sure that we’re right for each other. And if it’s coaching, also people can reach out to me that way as well.
Jonathan:
That’s good because that means you’re not just a cookie cutter place. Who’s just going to take the money just to take the money.
Terry Knickerbocker:
Yeah, that’s not going to work out because, and a lot of acting studios are like that. Unfortunately, you can just sign up for a class right there and give them your credit card. As long as you have a heartbeat and a credit card you’re in, right. But one of the things you need in an acting class is a reliable partner. And so it’s really comforting, even though our students are all shapes and sizes and ages, and we’re really diverse. What they all share is this passionate commitment to really being the best actors they can be. So you hopefully know my partner’s going to be there. They’re going to show up for rehearsal. They’re going to know their lines. They’re going to be reliable. I may not like the way they dress. I may not have voted for the person they voted for, but I can count on them. And so I think I was meeting people and sort of weeding out the people who we’re not right for, or they’re not right for us means that we have less students, but the quality is really high.
Jonathan:
That is so true because I’ve recently met some people through this podcast and just amazing. And they’re maybe not my super best friends, but when it comes to acting and I need them, they are so there for me and vice versa. And I have a nice professional relationship and it’s a little bit of a friendship, but it’s more professional and they’re there because they’re good and they’re working all the time. And those are the people you want to hang around. I learned so much, this one girl Avis Ritmore. She is just amazing. I just can’t believe she’s just not super famous and not on some series. Cause she’s just got it going on. I just love her to death. People like that, you know? So somebody up and coming right now, they go, oh, they don’t want to be an actor. I don’t know why should I do? I feel it, but I have to make a living. My parents want me to do this, become a lawyer or a doctor. And I want to have that passion. What advice do you have for them?
Terry Knickerbocker:
That’s a hard one. You know, because you want to honor your family, but ultimately it’s your life. So what someone else wants you to do, that’s their agenda, not your agenda. So I would say, first of all, as Hamlet says to thine own self, be true. And if it’s something you want to do and you need to do, you know, they used to say, if there’s anything else you can do, except for acting, do that because it’s hard. It’s hard to be a good actor. It’s hard to learn how to act. And as you know, this business is fickle and it doesn’t always happen right away. And you’ve got to have grit. You’ve got to have thin skin in the work and really thick skin because you’re going to be rejected daily, right? So you got a need to do it. But if that’s what you need to do, if you need to do it and not for an academy award and not for the acclaim, but just because you love telling stories and you love being on a film set and you love the action and the passion of that, then no one can stop you.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And there is room for you. Don’t let anybody say, well, there are too many actors. So where am I going to break in? Because there’s no one exactly like you, even if you’re a twin, you’re unique and you have something to say, and if you need to say it, the best advice I could say is either that how your parents, thank you. What I need from you is belief in me, believe in me, give me that support. Not necessarily financial support, but give me your emotional support. And don’t burden me with your fear because of course, every parent wants their kid to have a roof over their head. And there’s the starving actor kind of cliche. I don’t plan to starve. I don’t know if I’m going to be rich, but I’m going to do this the rest of my life. And I hope you’re with me because it’s going to be great. And then go get some training because you’re going to need training. Don’t focus on audition. Don’t focus on pilot season. Anybody can get a job and they’re hiring people because they have Instagram followers. That to me is stupid and sad, right? If you want to be an artist, that’s who I care about. I like great actors who tell great stories and touch the human heart. And for that you need training, passion, commitment, and training.
Jonathan:
Yeah, exactly. So yeah, what you just said is probably what a lot of actors needed to hear. I actually needed to hear it myself, whether it’s a spouse or a girlfriend or boyfriend, that relationship, that person has to be super supportive of what you’re doing. Because if they’re shooting you down and they’re in your life every day, it’s it’s tough. It’s tough. You have to surround yourself by people who believe in you. And that’s definitely what I’m doing now. Not just kind of getting better at acting
Terry Knickerbocker:
Well that’s practice.
Jonathan:
And it’s every day that’s a lot of work is a lot of work to go in there. I just shot some scenes, but I have three more and then I have to do it every single day. I know it feels good. I just know there’s something out there for me and that people are listening. There’s something out there for you too. So yeah, just don’t give up and just keep going and just be very self-disciplined about it. Yeah.
Terry Knickerbocker:
And enjoy your life. Eat good food, take walks, have friends.
Jonathan:
Yeah so, wrapping up here. Is there anything else you’d like to say that we didn’t cover?
Terry Knickerbocker:
Gosh, no. You know, you have great energy, Johnny. You have a nice laugh and I really it’s so nice to meet you and thank you for this opportunity to speak a little bit about what I love to do and the people who love to do it as well.
Jonathan:
Hey Terry, thank you so much for being on my podcast. I super really appreciate it. I love everything you said. This is like a real actors podcast. It’s not just a bunch of fluff promoting somebody’s stuff. I mean, you really gave some value. I got some value from you and thank you so much for doing my show. I really appreciate
Terry Knickerbocker:
My pleasure, Johnny. Have a great day. Alright. Have a great weekend. Bye-bye okay. Take care.
Jonathan:
And remember if you’re looking for that fantastic real estate agent, I have a no cost solution for you. Tri-state Realty Los angeles.com. Thank you so much. Well, I hope you enjoyed this episode of actor’s 20, 20 podcasts. I’m Johnny Keith, your host. Now we’re going to end this episode with something called the lesson because life is a G really want you to tell me something I don’t already know because everywhere I go, people tell me what to do. Hey, go to church, go to school and get treatment. A lack of food. Now I don’t need religion. Culture class. You don’t walk that way. You can kiss my. Yeah. White. Jackie’s got a problem with that Susan up and don’t be so tight. Take it easy. He got the whole night from science. I’m ready to get the show on their boat. I don’t want to stop.
Jonathan:
Cause I just might explain what I’ll tell you what? Life I’m twice as nice in any bad boy. Rapper called vanilla ice. Mama said yet, in case you didn’t know what I’m here. Yes. I’m better than snow. I don’t move off the jump like these Michael’s James, but I can hold my own here. What a say? Now listen, learn. Because here comes the lessons less. Once everybody’s set out, GK is going to take it for her, right? This is a story of the Hollywood gate. Choose your path. Careful. You’re the only one that might not, when it comes to pot, crack tweak or blow, stick to the rules in just say no, because you’re young. You’re eager. You’ll want in the movies. Don’t think you’ll get there by giving up the beauty kills on use. You use, you go, you are trash. And then you’ll discover that you’re out of cash.
Jonathan:
Now your heart, your soul is somewhere on the shelf. And you’re walking through the streets. Now talking to yourself, the lessons, what? You’ve heard less than one it’s powerful. Lesson two, you have a joy. And the choice is up to you. I came to Hollywood, the beer rich and famous. But for now on what you get both in attendance. Someone’s car pitchers classes, agents where the hell does it. Every time I turn around. I’m sorry. No, we’re again. I finally got a break with a five line in my lap was starting to roar like lightning and the phone rings. Hello? I’m casting pilot, Malek spun out of control. Just like an LA riot. I’ll walk down the nets and the hell with this offhand. The phones not even being in that. My life is in the camp. The lessons. Yeah. Final lesson here of course is number three.
Jonathan:
Now remember I’m a knocker to beat or not to be when the going got tough. I climb into the bottles, go my feet now rev a mob throttle on the cons with a top. It’s the same old gate. Now I’m kicking cast and I’m taking snake. Paul’s grape and screaming. And that was a long, hard crawl, but it was all what the album box off the shop for two. And the chief was there were not to it with the punch now, baby, but let’s do what, there’s a big piece of pie and you should grab your portions. You can be like me enjoying fame and fortune. Boom. That’s the lesson. Go and learn it. It’s the lessons. Go and learn it. It’s the lesson. Peace out. Thank you for tuning ins to accurate 20, 20 podcast. I’m your host, John, until next episode.
